Video Can LGBTQ+ and Christians See Eye To Eye?

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15:03   |   Jul 26, 2018


Can LGBTQ+ and Christians See Eye To Eye?
Can LGBTQ+ and Christians See Eye To Eye? thumb Can LGBTQ+ and Christians See Eye To Eye? thumb Can LGBTQ+ and Christians See Eye To Eye? thumb


  • -This is a physical manifestation of love. This is glorious and beautiful,
  • and any god which denies me for this I don't want to have a part of.
  • -On the left-hand side can I have my LGBT folks, on the right-hand side and I have my conservatives.
  • -"There are times when I feel uncomfortable expressing my views around sexuality."
  • -I am uncomfortable, primarily because the bromance of like, "Well, there's two girls. Who's the boy?"
  • And then it really just breaks the ice, 'cause there's like... there isn't supposed to be a boy.
  • That's why we're there. I do my best to break the ice with the comedic deflection, which I've learned is a...
  • self-defense mechanism, right?
  • -I come from a very conservative community. And so, you know, it just wasn't talked about.
  • The people I've had the most conversations with about are actually my family,
  • which is really weird because I came out to my parents because my dad was going to be
  • leading the protests at the pride festival that my boyfriend wanted me to go to.
  • -Wow. -So um...
  • -I'm a pastor as well. I'm also a community leader in Boyle Heights and in that community, there's a large
  • LGBTQ presence, so there's that fear of really coming out and saying what I believe,
  • because I do love everybody and I don't want to be pushed to the side just because I have a certain
  • feeling about, you know, any topic, really.
  • -I just wanted to say to you- and, you know, it's not the beliefs that sometimes I have a problem with or
  • I think people have a problem with in general. It's just like the actions from the belief
  • So like it's okay to have beliefs
  • but if we like can be loving in our beliefs and you know how our actions
  • Come from those beliefs and like I love that we're having this conversation
  • You know like trying to breach those like build a bridge
  • (Presenter): Some sins are worse than others
  • In the eyes of, you know, of the God, our worship, I believe that any sin
  • separates us from Him because He's holy and pure.
  • But at the same time I think there are certain sins that will have greater consequences
  • Yea I resonate with that. For me, it would be you know killing another human is the worst. That's it.
  • Also, it Venn diagrams into abortion. Taking the life of another is huge, is huge.
  • (Presenter): Can I ask you two this?
  • -Do you all see homosexuality as a sin? -Yes -and if so, where on that scale?
  • I don't think a homosexual tendency or an attraction to somebody of the same gender is a sin.
  • I think that's a natural feeling.
  • I think when you start engaging in a lifestyle
  • and you act upon that tendency, then, because it goes against what I believe God designed,
  • then I think that's clearly a sin.
  • I just don't believe in sin because I feel that sometimes being punitive about things can like
  • make you
  • repress things and like
  • Instinctually, I was like but not acting on them would be a sin like that's how it feels for me like being dishonest to myself
  • That feels wrong
  • (Presenter): At some point in my life I was taught that sex is wrong
  • I guess like within the context, you know sex that's outside the context of marriage
  • and so I guess that's how identified with the question
  • I had a very strong religious upbringing and
  • I ended up doing a lot of self-harm and I end up doing a lot of things just to try and cope with these
  • urges that
  • when I finally gave in to them, I mean this is
  • This is a physical manifestation of love. This is
  • Glorious and beautiful and any God which denies me for this? I don't want to have a part of
  • Because whatever this is I know for a fact to be a truth because it is the nature of love
  • Yeah, just responding to your story
  • It makes me sad to hear that
  • That you decided to hurt yourself
  • me too
  • Yeah, I still hold on to
  • What I believe are my beliefs
  • but at the same time I wish there was a better way for you to
  • Talk to someone and to process and to think through
  • Reconciling how you feel with like what you may have been taught or have read through Scripture
  • yeah, I mean and that's the thing is I think there's a lot of
  • There's a lot of cultural baggage I think around
  • Christianity that isn't necessarily inherently part of any biblical Christianity
  • Even though I grew up in a Christian family, I was--
  • I don't recall ever being told that sex was wrong or it was a bad thing
  • I think I grew up with the understanding that sex is a beautiful thing
  • it was given to us as a gift to enjoy. There's a place where it's
  • it's been designed for, a place where we can enjoy it.
  • And there's a place where it's detestable in the sight of the Creator.
  • The one who gave it to us.
  • I just don't like the idea that anything is really detestable. You know what I mean?
  • -So I just don't like the... -But wouldn't you say that even sex for you within certain context is testable?
  • Like, like...
  • -No because I don't... -Like if it's non-consensual?
  • -Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. -Like that's pretty detestable, right?
  • -So even in that context... -But the things that I consent to are I think not det...
  • Like that I have sometimes no control over if it's non-consensual
  • (Presenter): People should honor the pronouns others wish to be called
  • -oh, oh, oh -Hesitation's a no
  • I am all for this. Like, I identify as they.
  • People don't consider it and I think that, like, having these conversations about how people want to identify
  • It's like really important in a way that we can move things forward and stuff
  • Yeah, if you're like, 'Hey, if you don't use... whatever you're gonna get fined' or whatever like that's...
  • I'm not a big fan of that.
  • No these are conversations between us though, right?
  • -Like yeah. -But otherwise it's just being respectful.
  • Oh, the pronoun police *laughter*
  • So for me I never correct people because many times people do confuse me as "sir." I don't--it doesn't faze me.
  • However, I'm born in a female body. I'm a "she"
  • There are times where my girlfriend's have said 'oh my boyfriend,' this and that
  • just because of their comfort zone they don't want to have to deal with the whole like social stigma
  • So you're comfortable with them presenting you as a male
  • -when... -It doesn't faze me
  • -Really? -It doesn't faze me at all because my identity and my expressions are masculine
  • and I've come to the terms and the realization that
  • I don't need to chop up my body into different pieces to fit in the social little box that is "man"
  • If you want to address me you can address me as "he" or "she" or "them"
  • or "girl," 'Becky with the good hair,' or "Beck" *laughter*
  • As long as the term is respectful, I will take it
  • I mean I step back just because it's a complicated topic.
  • Because with language--language is powerful
  • And so when somebody who I would consider a female wants to be called a male
  • I would want to probably respect that but I still firmly believe that, you know, they're--
  • God created there to be man and a woman and umm--
  • I would like to sit down and talk to that person in depth before leaning one way or the other. Yeah.
  • But I think like focusing more on like building a relationship instead of just like grilling someone
  • 'Why do you feel--' you know what I mean?
  • -Like just trying to connect-- -'What's wrong with you? Like why don't you--?' *laughter*
  • -Just kidding. -Like yeah. Let me sit down and-- *laughter*
  • -Dissect you like a-- -So you are like a pronoun police *laughter*
  • (Presenter): America is heading in the right direction when it comes to inclusion and diversity
  • For me its more like the youth are headed in like inclusion and diversity and I wouldn't necessarily say it's
  • the institutions of power I think the youth are really moving our culture forward and like it's encouraging to see
  • Now I can't imagine what it's like to not be able to be who I am and having to hide
  • so I think it's good in that sense that people finally are living in a world where I can be who I am
  • and I don't have to be ostracized and I can be included
  • and the reason why I didn't step in is because
  • you know, I have certain values that I think are from God
  • And so that's why I hesitated a little bit on do I come forward or not?
  • Well, I have a question because I, you know
  • I'm curious where the sanctity if your marriage comes in
  • Like if you can only get married to one because you and God and that woman have a relationship
  • that is perfect for you, I'm curious how that affects
  • uhh...
  • who we can marry? -Yeah
  • I don't think the job of a Christian for example is to get people to behave in a certain
  • moral way that's in line with what the Bible says. I wouldn't be one to say
  • 'You can't marry. You can't marry another guy,' or 'you can't marry another girl'
  • I would say first of all God loves you, you know, God loves you.
  • Yeah, so specifically talking about like prop 8
  • When prop 8 came out I was completely against it
  • I thought it was foolish and and quite ignorant and by many churches supporting prop 8
  • We basically tell you--told the gay community that we don't care about you. We don't care about
  • how you feel, what you think love is
  • We're just gonna mandate that you can't marry who you say you want to marry
  • We're adversaries
  • Yeah, we became adversaries and the church
  • I think lost a great position and saying and coming to people saying like we love you
  • (Presenter): People should have the right to have sex with anyone they want
  • Anyone?
  • Okay, yeah, alright. -Consensually, right? Consensually? *laughter*
  • With anyone?
  • Okay. Yes in the term anyone except children
  • -Yeah -As humans we--and as creatures of a divine spirit
  • We have the right to follow our instincts and our sexual urges without punishing ourselves
  • for you know wanting a woman or wanting a man and
  • So yeah. Anyone has a right to
  • consensual
  • love making
  • So the reason why I step back and I--you guys would agree with me--but
  • When I was 9 years old, I was touched by a family member
  • And so
  • You know that's--I can't step forward when and that question is asked
  • And I know you guys wouldn't agree with that
  • And that's you preferenced at the very beginning that you know, if at long it's consensual and not kids
  • but that was my experience and
  • Yep
  • Sorry about that.
  • I resonate with as well. I mean I was as well, you know, and there wasn't a family member. Thank God, however still
  • Enough of a tumultuous problem that even when I came out as a lesbian
  • I wondered if it had to do with that instant and definitely
  • brought up and that's why it was the first thing that I said, you know because
  • You know one is innocent and doesn't know
  • Absolutely.
  • (Presenter): I believe in a higher power
  • I'd love to hear from your perspective of why you believe in a higher power?
  • I mean the household I was raised in. Why not?
  • the analogy of like you can't--one cannot see love one cannot see air and it's still there and you know I started going to
  • more
  • clergymen and
  • Wanting to understand exactly, you know my ways of being in the image of a greater creator understanding I wasn't a mistake
  • You know, you know there is a higher source
  • There's definitely something that has given me these blessings that have nothing to do with me
  • It has everything to do with a bigger picture of things
  • I think for me, you know
  • I was also raised in a very strong religious background and just as I cannot deny this part of me
  • that this is the way I express love I'd be dishonest if I said that when I sat down and I prayed and I listened
  • I didn't hear
  • Oh no! it's time for the heathen *laughter*
  • No, no. You have to stop. You are no mistake.
  • I resonate with some of the things you said too. Like, I do believe in a higher power
  • I just don't believe in like a typical higher power and I also like
  • Highly believe in science. So I'm like, I believe in gravity as a higher power
  • I believe in like entropy as a--you know
  • like things that we that are out of our control and stuff
  • and I want to always keep searching and always keep questioning and like
  • Always trying to find like as much love as possible, I guess
  • And I believe in other people's gods, too
  • Like I believe in that for y'all, you know what I mean?
  • like if that's what makes you a better person and makes you
  • feel more yourself and feel more loved like I believe in that, you know
  • But I can't say that I believe it for myself because I don't know
  • I don't want to cast all my eggs in one basket
  • (Presenter): Guys, thank you friends. Thank you.
  • I appreciate it. *laughter*
  • Thank you! *laughter*
  • (inaudible)
  • Hey guys, this is Jason from Jubilee here. We hope you enjoyed another episode of Middle Ground
  • We'd love to hear from you in the comments below. Let us know what you thought about the episode
  • Let us know what you thought about the issue and whether there was someone who changed your opinion
  • or if there's something that you agreed with or disagreed with
  • We'd love to have a great discussion with you in the comments.
  • As always make sure you click here to subscribe
  • click here for more videos. We will see you guys next time.

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